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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 36 post(s) |
Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 09:40:00 -
[1]
Some words to ponder, from someone in your industry:
We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.
ųJohn Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment
What these changes tell me as a paying customer for nearly four years running and 0.0 resident is that you no longer wish for me, my alliance mates, my allies, or even my enemies to ever *bother* you ever again with our problems by making conquerable 0.0 so tedious and unrewarding to own or fight over that we pettily squabble over the limited tracts of NPC 0.0 until our eyes bleed from boredom. This is not the "grand sandbox" you've pitched not only to us but the world as well to lift EVE up from the dregs of WoW clones.
I see in these changes, and feel free to chuckle at this given my corporation, an attack on how I and both friend and foe alike conduct ourselves in this game, and a not-so-veiled punishment for all the "trouble" we've caused you and workload we've made you do to improve *our* game experience. Us, the vocal minority who choose not to stay in Empire and play WoW With Spaceships for our chosen kill-mission company or agency.
Yes, we are the minority in your game. But we also are the people who make the stories and headlines that keep EVE relevant. I simply ask that you don't forget that. You have a unique opportunity available to you when you return, not that I doubt you're going to ever see my message here on the 17th or 18th page, to prevent EVE from being SWG Part Deux, where you saw the consequences-to-be and held back, instead of surged forward thinking it would bring you new blood to wash away the whining and tiresome masses of old.
Your call, CCP.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 11:10:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 07/11/2009 11:10:18
Originally by: Natourist In my opinion CCP is just making it harder to control huge areas of space. If you want to control it - you must work for it. At present it seems that its too easy.
Anyone who has ever done large scale 0.0 logistics and maintenance would happily neuter you with a dull spork for saying this.
The problem isn't "working for your name on the map," it's making the effort to do so worth it. This isn't worth it.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 11:23:00 -
[3]
Stoffer, as much as this thread needs blue bar replies right now...you *really* need to stop posting.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 23:20:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Treji If Goonies are whining, new expansion must be good
Or are they a little miffed due to new changes hampering their system of play?
We're just being the most vocal (as usual). If this goes through it's going to screw over *everyone*, even the people you like who fight us.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 23:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: oniplE I can see how this would force alliances to make better use of the systems they have instead of just having a lot of systems.
It's not this we're "whining" about. We've been preparing to "scale back" for months since CCP hinted that vast blobs of color on the map were likely to become a thing of the past. These changes make it so the only reason there would be colored dots or blobs on the sov map *at all* would be to build supercapitals or for e-peen (hello Molle).
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 23:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Vivian Azure It's funny to see the babble about 0.0 should be more rewarding then empire...
I got a fix for your problems: fly LvL 4 missions with an alt.
Seriously, stop crying about crap PvE-content in a PvP-centric game. PvE-content should get scrapped and reduced to a minimum, not boosted.
This has been covered over and over again. It doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't need to have multiple accounts to enjoy EVE if you live in 0.0.
And before you say "cry more" since you're probably trolling anyway - I have three accounts, one of which was a recent Power of Two purchase I'm regretting making now.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 23:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mcon99
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
And before you say "cry more" since you're probably trolling anyway - I have three accounts, one of which was a recent Power of Two purchase I'm regretting making now.
No please, keep crying. Obviously the complainers in this thread are failed 0.0 pilots who are so bad they need mission alts.
If everyone in this thread keeps believing that complaining about the Lvl 4 income vs 0.0 is going to change CCP minds, they are nuts. Lvl 4's ARE CRAP GAMEPLAY. ALWAYS. 0.0 is the BEST GAMEPLAY (including wormholes). Total freedom. Faction drops. Solo and group PVE. The best ores. And PVP can be right around the corner.
First rule for real players - never have a mission alt. Never. Never mission. Ever. Plex, rat, wormhole, explore. Mission grinding in high sec is failure. Missions in 0.0, respectable, i must admit, because the risk factor.
<-- Never missioned. Never made much isk on the market, only a little through manufacturing. Don't mine. Between wormholes, 0.0 rats and plexes, and pvp returns, I have billions.
None of them are mission alts. They're all 0.0 support. And I'm sure we all enjoy hearing about your bling. I have a nice roll too, I just don't act like a smug ***got about it.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 04:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tesal Edited by: Tesal on 08/11/2009 04:05:30
Originally by: Mahke
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Marlona Sky Why are goons crying the most of this?
Because Delve is about to become a death trap, and vengeful ex-Bob cloak ships on them and stuff. And they will have to pvp like crazy to hold Delve, and it will be like Mogadishu all the time and they won't be able to afford to cyno jam it all, and the region will become unprofitable with current moon prices if they hold Sov in the whole thing.
Simpler explanation is that they just don't want to have non-goon players near them. They also want to hold delve and maintan querious as a buffer. Since they don't want pets or allies living near/with them AND really benefit from the status quo of huge territories held for strategic use but not actually used by anyone, they have the most to lose by dominion being successfully implemented (i.e. in such a way that creates a strong incentives for the big alliances to let groups of smaller groups live in their sphere of influence).
Thats what I said. Death trap.
*edit Maybe I should root for this just because it kills Goons.
Yeah, we're totally "crying" about this because we're scared of getting blown up. And not because we're the largest spaceholding alliance.
We've actually got it BETTER than most of 0.0. Atlas and the Esoteria/Paragon Soul alliances are our enemies and they're going to get ****d by this. This ISN'T a damned "goons don't like this, it must be good" situation - the people who are getting screwed aren't being vocal enough.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 10:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: dannyBOy16437 The reason all of the big alliances are agreeing that the new sov system is terrible... is because all the big alliances will have to cut the number of systems they own. So stop whining and accept you will no longer be having whole multiple regions all to yourself.
Ahem...
WE KNEW THIS. WE'VE PLANNED FOR IT FOR MONTHS WITH NO CONCRETE INFO UNTIL THE DEV BLOG. WE DON'T CARE THAT WE'LL NOT HAVE A HUGE MAP BLOB, JUST THAT WE'LL HAVE SPACE WORTH FIGHTING FOR, WHICH WITH THIS WE WON'T.
*cough*
Huge blobs mean massive logistics efforts and expenditures. NOT maintaining huge blobs and redundant jump bridge networks mean/meant your space was insecure. This is why we said our former space was **** - it's highly indefensible against attacks on jump bridges. ATLAS and the Esoteria/Paragon crowd are aware of this now. We *wanted* easier ways of maintaining and consolidating space. This isn't it.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.09 01:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 09/11/2009 01:58:23
Originally by: Quesa Hey you, don't make comparisons to lvl4 missions. BTW, go to Empire and run lvl4 missions to make ISK. The hypocracy of people who don't know/live in 0.0 is immense.
Vivian Azure of KLONKRIEGER:
Standings of Klonkrieger (two person corp): Federation Navy 9.75 The Scope 9.55 Federal Intelligence Office 9.03 Roden Shipyards 8.13 + more
L4s are something he seems to know well. *waits to have his own 9.xx Fed Navy standing from 2005 dragged out as proof of his 'hypocrisy'*
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.09 07:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mkiaki Learn to grind Goons, it's what the rest of EVE has to do.
You've obviously never had to fuel a tower or 500+. We grind more than you. And thanks for the single-out so everyone knows you're just being a troll and not looking to add anything but a Nelson laugh from your jewgold-inlaid ivory tower in Motsu.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.09 21:50:00 -
[12]
A lot of you seem to think that we're "whining" because we don't want to lose our big D&Q-shaped "blob" on the map.
This isn't the case. We've been chatting for months on how we'd probably be forced to "consolidate" our space and how to do so while retaining the most defensibility. Little did we know that with these changes the space wouldn't be worth *keeping* at all save for CSAAs.
This is not a "Goon" thing. As usual we're just the most vocal. Rooting for this because it hurts us hurts everyone who has space who doesn't like us. There would be nothing to do but defend and carebear. Going to war, you know, those things that give EVE such good press, would be entirely suicidal in this new system, and either wouldn't happen, or would simply cease after a few battles. Exciting, huh?
But you don't care. This is CAOD. Here any nameless/corpless ******* can post something as if he knows what the hell he's talking about (or troll, snipe, or egg on) and be heard as if he *did* know what he was talking about. Maybe just to possibly see himself quoted or to get some sense of "power" over someone he feels needs to be taken down a peg.
Under this patch, with these "upgrades," 0.0 space will not be worth holding. NPC 0.0 will become the de facto new "must have." The "nerf" to moon mining will mean less T2 submaterials on the market which in turn will mean drastically higher prices for everything T2. Less ABC ores on the market will hurt everything else.
So yeah, have your fun claiming "you've got ten alts all of which are in 0.0, billionaires, and are 'important men in the internet spaceship community.'" You'll suffer as much as us if this goes through.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.09 22:01:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 09/11/2009 22:01:08
Originally by: Qlanth So even though we are arguing the exact same point goons are crying and you are...
He's not one of "us" so that means he's more relevant, duhhhhhh.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.09 23:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Itzena
To what purpose? If there's nothing worth fighting over any more, and Alliance income is nerfed...why risk capfleets to seize more worthless space that will only cost money?
Nothing worth fighting for?
I don't like you. I want to see you die and your empire burn.
I like you. Your e-hate is warm and delicious.
I suggest that since it's obvious CCP isn't going to post here anymore that this conversation needs to be moved to CAOD so all of these important anonymous internet spaceship moguls have to at least switch to their Empire holding corp tags.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.09 23:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Vivian Azure I'm not speaking of wars that happened in the last century... they were'nt that big actually, but you'll figure it out.
Are you talking about the many wars scattered throughout history where religious / nationalist fervor was stoked to incite a war that was in fact for more mundane political and economic gain?
Yes, this is the tack this thread needs to be put on. :arsed:
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 00:02:00 -
[16]
Betting Vivian Azure is LadyScarlet. Just a hunch.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 00:23:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 10/11/2009 00:23:47
Originally by: Alice Celadon Edited by: Alice Celadon on 10/11/2009 00:15:50 !THREAD SUMMARY!
I just read the whole thread. I'm going to try to be helpful. Let's list the points that aren't being disputed in this thread.
1. Having upgraded space is going to be more costly than just holding sov. 2. Nullsec point source income (moon mining) is getting nerfed (CCP Soundwave's earlier comment about this is baffling). 3. Living in 0.0 will provide less(maybe equal) income for an individual player at much greater risk than living in 0.5+.
It is amazing that no one is arguing over #1 and #2. The Goons, PL, Atlas, AAA don't care that their almost effortless isk is getting the nerfbat. As an empire dweller myself, I find this acceptance of change both commendable and amazing (although it's understandable; I'd be bored silly with content-devoid moongoo after 5 years). If someone was taking the bat to my invention/manufacturing business, I would flip.
The rest of the arguments are over point #3, and boil down to the following two statements:
I. The greatest isk/hr rewards in 0.0 should exceed the greatest isk/hr rewards in 0.5+
VS.
II. 0.0 life should be about wars and conquest and danger, not about making isk. Individuals should be willing to sacrifice time and isk for the perk of living in 0.0
Finally, CCP seems to have already sided with I.(see CCP Chrons posts), but doesn't seem to have laid out a picture consistent with 0.0 being more attractive after a risk assessment than 0.5+.
0.0 already *is* about sacrificing time (alarm clocking, POS timers) so...
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 03:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ServantOfMask
Originally by: KeratinBoy You agree we are getting shafted then?
YOU aren't getting shafted, i admitted that CVA is getting shafted. i argue that CVA brought it on themselves though.
Goons are in a great position post expansion with the best space 0.0 has to offer. not to mention you have the member base to actually exploit all that space. so how exactly are YOU getting shafted?
because you can move into a cluster of npc stations, run pirate lvl 4's and continue to exploit all of delve's resources even without strangling it with sov 3...?
or is the loss of the delve subway THAT big of a deal? i admit it was nice having that on hand when pushing back AAA and Kenny but is it THAT important to you?
We'll almost assuredly retain at least one arm to Empire and probably spend the majority of our time defending it, as will every other 0.0 alliance. They'll be forced to, above little else. AAA went nuts over defending HED *before* this - imagine it after?
Yes, we're not getting shafted nearly as much as Atlas, the Paragon/Esoteria crowd, or the far northern alliances. Delve is one giant 100% coverage blob for one reason - the current Sovereignty system. Sov 3 + jammers = a near hands-off defense system. This won't be the case post-Dominion. We know this now, and we suspected it months ago. Our logistics people, who know the word "grind" far better than any mission-runner, were ecstatic that soon they wouldn't have to keep hundreds of towers in over 150 systems running anymore. They still are since this system, altered or left as-is, means less work for them.
Again, the problems with this patch are: 1. The upgrades/rewards do not befit the risk or over L4s in Empire, and those who live in 0.0 should not be forced to have 2+ accounts to utilize repetitious missions for funding. 2. Holding of space for any reason other than CSAA deployment is meaningless save for "prestige." 3. Far-reaching alliances are at a severe disadvantage and face destruction by attrition by CCP's plans. 4. No further incentive to war past small gang and harassment warfare, which further exacerbates the point raised in #1.
Yeah, it's strange that we're "sticking up for the little guy" here. But the little guys often end up joining with the bigger guys we don't like all that much, and that leads to ~good fights~. L4 missions don't generate press, and even the "exclusive LP rewards" have failed to generate much more attention or support for faction warfare. 0.0 warfare is what gets EVE its press and legitimacy over the endless masses of farm-n-grind MMOs out there. This patch threatens to "normalize" the game, what some of you call a "reset." There's nothing wrong with a reset so long as there's still a reason to regain what was "lost." There isn't right now.
If you think that supporting this patch merely because it hurts someone or something you don't like, you're not assessing the damage it could potentially do to the game *you* pay to enjoy as well. More boring 0.0 means there's less chances for you to do other things when the monotony stick hits you upside the head. So Goon-bash and troll all you like. We've been doing this a while. We were prepared to make concessions - and even wondered what to do should CCP have decided to forego a grace period at all. We were prepared for almost everything - except being told that we really wouldn't have much to fight for when it was done.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 04:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ServantOfMask about goons standing up for the little guy... well i have a hard time believing EVE's resident scammer alliance.
Not our fault people don't ask around before falling for it repeatedly.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 11/11/2009 22:22:53
Originally by: SXYGeeK I'm very concerned about how dificult it is to get the military index up, especialy in systems with low belt counts. I had 6+ pilots running my 5 belt system and anomolies in it for most of the day yesterday after patch. killed almost 1000 rats (1000, not a typo) and got 12% toward lvl 1.
came back today and it was back at 0%, killed another 200 rats and no movement at all, still red down arrow. something must be wrong here.
read more here... http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1211774
This needs more attention.
~1,000 rats for 12%? Does that mean ~10,000 for 100%? Just for Level 1? Are you insane?
Here's an idea, do what people have been saying and eliminate frigate/cruiser spawns from 0.0 entirely and scale the "points per kill" on the quality/type of rats killed, and if you're not going to replace the anomaly rats with basic ones, double or triple their "point worth."
Too many questions leading into this, CCP. Back off the death march and let us help *you* make this not a disaster.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 08:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 13/11/2009 08:42:15 Here's an idea, CCP - if we're supposed to consolidate space, how about removing the restrictions on only one outpost per system? That's less jump bridges needed, less *systems* needed, and "moar targets " for if/when you do that "wrecking outposts" idea.
I know the *old* way of doing things was to require you to own a minimum of two different systems if you wanted to have a refinery and factory, but what's the excuse now?
As for the "complex beacon" idea above, simply anchor a dockable object (one of many in the 'large collidable object' family should do) that has no station services except an LP store. Allow *any* faction (including FW and Empire) and any amount of agents thereof of that faction in, so one agent for each level @ LxQ-20, LxQ0, and LxQ20.
I'm not particularly keen on the whole idea of "fixing the L4 mission quandary" with just adding more missions, but the ability to run *any* kind from *any* faction might be interesting.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.16 07:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nobani
Originally by: Future Mutant (Most) ppl in null sec corps dont pay for their own ships (or pay discounted prices)
Would the alliance which pays for all their members ships please step forward? I want to join.
Oh come on, let's be entirely honest - we get all our ships for free because it's a benefit from taking Delve. Everyone "in the know" knows that NOL- has a special hidden station service (the button is 10x10 pixels wide and very well-obscured) that poops out whatever non-supercapital (since there has to be SOME limits) that anyone with the requisite roles needs. All it costs is one Exotic Dancer - why do you think the BoB guys used to always carry one around in their cargoholds? It's so if they got the chance to loot the field, they could get their ships back for zero cost!
Seriously, did you think we did a PEDESTRIAN act like import hulls from Empire and build on site? Pah. PAH I say! To think we use a market system in 0.0 like the peons in Empire...preposterous!
But seriously, Future Mutant, you're a really bad troll or you're immensely stupid and high-strung. At least the latter is mildly entertaining.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.16 21:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Pointfive That new dev blog, or any kind of developer response would be nice right now. I know they are busy screwing other things up and getting yelled at, hut hey this one came first. At least pretend your customer input matters.
Too late to stop...too invested...we promise to look at it again when we get a chance/after we've seen the results...
There's your dev response.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.17 23:23:00 -
[24]
CCP, it should be telling you a lot when the people coming out in unanimous support of this are trolls and mission runners who seem to be bitter and/or ecstatic that the marginalization of 0.0 is possibly going to make their risk-free internet spaceship money worth more so fewer new-ish players will be less able to afford things like CNRs and Golems.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.18 00:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kalexander It's really not just a matter of money either, because if fresh fish can make enough money to account for the risks over level 4's, then the big fish in the sea are going to be able to pump so much isk into the game that the economy is liable to crash.
Yes, except that the lifetime L4 runner with billions pretty much lets it stagnate on the whole. They buy a CNR, fit it with faction, deadspace, and/or officer gear and do nothing but hoard until you get the spark that it might be nice to use your giant pile of isk to annoy others. Some go blinged-out lowsec ganking route with T3 cruisers, carriers, etc - but on the whole most of them still never really *lose* significant amounts of isk. The only time they're ever put in a position where they can lose a massive chunk is when they find themselves on the other end of a suicide BS gang or don't escape in time to be ambushed when pirating.
The thought of the *average* 0.0 schmo earning on the same pale as them threatens the worth of their money, so they go nuts whenever someone suggests that someone else should make more than them, risk be damned from the equation. That's why some in this thread are busy trying to paint 0.0 denizens as spoiled. So it becomes a case of trying to equate *alliance* wealth with the average 0.0 alliance member, by trying to sell falsitudes like "they get free ships" when the most you ever get is subsidies for loss when you use a regimented fit which aren't meant to reward the person flying them but rather give them incentive to show up and risk the marginal loss in isk and *larger* cost in earning time to become engaged in a protracted conflict.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.18 05:33:00 -
[26]
The only money I earn in high-sec is from datacores.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:49:00 -
[27]
Keeping this at the top along with the awful new capital "changes."
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.29 23:23:00 -
[28]
FM, what's worse than your fellating of CCP over these changes that will decrease the "competition" you see in 0.0 earning over your L4 mission running (thereby making your isk "worth more" I guess) is that your feigning of understanding of the logic of these changes is moot since you're obviously just going to stay in Empire running missions.
So...congrats on being "Carebear Prime," I guess?
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.30 00:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar FM, what's worse than your fellating of CCP over these changes that will decrease the "competition" you see in 0.0 earning over your L4 mission running (thereby making your isk "worth more" I guess) is that your feigning of understanding of the logic of these changes is moot since you're obviously just going to stay in Empire running missions.
So...congrats on being "Carebear Prime," I guess?
Your missunderstanding of game mechanics is only surpassed by your lack of understanding of game economies.
So...congrats on being a "laughingstock", I guess?
Yeah, I guess I'd be an expert if I knew the spawn mechanics of The Blockade down to the second. Doesn't change the fact that you spent half this thread acting like a **** to everyone who plays this game differently than you and now you're purporting to be an expert in a facet of the game that of your own admission you have no interest in now and probably won't post-Dominion.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.30 02:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
Yeah, I guess I'd be an expert if I knew the spawn mechanics of The Blockade down to the second. Doesn't change the fact that you spent half this thread acting like a **** to everyone who plays this game differently than you and now you're purporting to be an expert in a facet of the game that of your own admission you have no interest in now and probably won't post-Dominion.
I have no problems with ppl playing the game how they want. On the reverse can you say the same? Or are you one of the guys always *****ing about npc corps? Have you used the word "carebear" in this thread?- am is supposed to think you didnt have a negative connotation in mind there?
My problem is when a very small minority in eve thinks they should be treated 500 times better then everyone else. Every null sec captain who ever posted in rage about "quitting eve, canceling their accounts"- should.
My dislike is not because they live in null- my disdain is because they are pathetic whiny douches.
Well, evidently CCP agrees with you since they're launching an unfinished and unproven patch that seems designed to end large-scale 0.0 warfare forever. So here's a :colbert: for you, champ.
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